WEBVTT NOTE Sentence-level transcript of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX4Z4XqZ9Vo NOTE One cue per sentence. Cue ids are the line anchors on /transcripts/YX4Z4XqZ9Vo.html. A cue ends where the next begins, or 2 s after its last word. s1 00:00:01.309 --> 00:00:03.309 [music] s2 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:13.480 Hi. s3 00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:15.040 Nice to meet you all. s4 00:00:15.040 --> 00:00:16.880 Um, appreciate you guys all coming. s5 00:00:16.880 --> 00:00:19.680 Um, hope everyone is having a good start to their day. s6 00:00:19.680 --> 00:00:20.400 Um, nice to meet you. s7 00:00:20.400 --> 00:00:21.200 I'm Hamby. s8 00:00:21.200 --> 00:00:24.000 I'm a co-founder and CTO at Mintlify. s9 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:33.720 Uh, Mintlify is a series B company based in San Francisco and we power developer documentation for companies like Coinbase. s10 00:00:33.720 --> 00:00:35.480 Um, would you like to give an intro? s11 00:00:35.480 --> 00:00:36.080 Yeah, sure. s12 00:00:36.080 --> 00:00:37.440 Everyone, my name is Lincoln. s13 00:00:37.440 --> 00:00:49.680 I'm the head of AI product at Coinbase, uh, which you might know as a crypto company, but is widely expanding into all sorts of assets and uh, payments as well and there's also an agentic angle, which we'll be talking about here shortly. s14 00:00:49.680 --> 00:00:50.960 Yeah. s15 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:53.520 Um, do you want to go and ask the first question? s16 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:54.080 Yeah, sure. s17 00:00:54.080 --> 00:01:03.320 So, the format was just kind of kind of fireside chat back and forth, talk a little bit about how how we view the world today, how our respective companies are building for this agentic future and where we kind of think things will will go. s18 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:09.000 So, Hamby, can you kick us off with uh, with a question here? s19 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:12.160 Sorry, I'm just Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. s20 00:01:12.160 --> 00:01:12.520 This one. s21 00:01:12.520 --> 00:01:21.640 So, yeah, how how do we think about agents becoming the the primary actor on the internet and the primary thing that people are using as as part of the uh, their internet experience? s22 00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:24.160 I can go tell an agent to go set up Coinbase for agents. s23 00:01:24.160 --> 00:01:27.040 It's going to find our docs and do it all entirely for me. s24 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:30.840 How does this change what's important when you're thinking about how you're building docs? s25 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:32.240 Yeah, of course. s26 00:01:32.240 --> 00:01:41.680 Um, so, Mintlify was founded in 2022, so pre-chat chat GPT, uh, GPT-3 specifically, I would say. s27 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:52.800 Um, and I would say that previously there was like much more of an emphasis on design and front end, which I personally love design and we are definitely like a design-led company still. s28 00:01:52.800 --> 00:01:54.800 So, it's kind of still it kind of makes me sad. s29 00:01:54.800 --> 00:02:01.892 I'm not going to lie, the fact that like the agents do not see your website and they do not care what it looks like or what the branding of it. s30 00:02:01.892 --> 00:02:06.412 And so, what ends up mattering a lot more is like things like page size. s31 00:02:06.412 --> 00:02:09.452 Like, is it taking up a bunch of like the context window? s32 00:02:09.452 --> 00:02:19.292 Uh like the the content being accurate because like an agent can like set like read your docs and set it up, and then if it runs into like a little friction point, it's just going to stop. s33 00:02:19.292 --> 00:02:22.132 It's just like it's not going to like debug it. s34 00:02:22.132 --> 00:02:29.852 It's It might just like It might try and try to like brute force it, but then it can also just as easily churn to another product. s35 00:02:29.852 --> 00:02:41.412 And so, I do think like, you know, like coding agents have made the world like move so much faster, and it's important that like I like engineering or EPD specifically s36 00:02:41.412 --> 00:02:49.332 is like seeing so many like uh like productivity gains, and uh like the rest of the org kind of needs to catch up, you know? s37 00:02:49.332 --> 00:02:59.692 And I I think the only way in order for us to all move at the speed that like the productivity gains that engineering is seeing is to kind of use AI to kind of keep up. s38 00:02:59.692 --> 00:03:10.692 And that means like, of course, it's a lot more subjective like whether the docs are good or like, you know, writing AI writing I I like I personally like I'm still figuring that out. s39 00:03:10.692 --> 00:03:18.852 Um but I do think like setting up automations in order to ensure that like uh like things like do not go stale is like a very very important. s40 00:03:18.852 --> 00:03:20.052 Um and I'm curious for yourself. s41 00:03:20.052 --> 00:03:32.877 So, now that like uh agents are making transactions on the internet, how does that change how Coinbase thinks about uh like the like like just transactions in general? s42 00:03:32.877 --> 00:03:33.012 [laughter] s43 00:03:33.012 --> 00:03:40.252 Yeah, the the the intersection of AI agents and and stablecoins as a as a payment rail have sort of happened at the same time. s44 00:03:40.252 --> 00:03:48.852 And traditionally, you see two inflection points come together in in previous eras of technology, like for example, mobile phones at the same time that you have 4G LTE. s45 00:03:48.852 --> 00:03:57.892 And this opens up a lot of new opportunities, but it also opens up an opportunity for us to be disintermediated or disrupted by a new nascent startup or company. s46 00:03:57.892 --> 00:04:00.132 So, there's there's really two ways that we think about it. s47 00:04:00.132 --> 00:04:13.014 One is what are these innovative products that we can build and use uh and and market specifically toward agents and build for agents so that they have this experience that is otherwise completely not possible in the previous era of the internet. s48 00:04:13.014 --> 00:04:24.694 But then also too, what are the core parts of Coinbase's business that we need to make accessible to agents such that people continue using Coinbase as for our bread and butter use case of of trading and money management and whatnot. s49 00:04:24.694 --> 00:04:31.974 And the way that I view those two things is around how we make our entire business accessible via APIs. s50 00:04:31.974 --> 00:04:39.294 So, how can we take all of the functionality that's available to humans and translate that into a world where agents can interact with it. s51 00:04:39.294 --> 00:04:43.094 And though that's possible with browser use, it's not exactly the most ideal situation. s52 00:04:43.094 --> 00:04:47.374 There's a lot of authentication and and security concerns, especially when you're dealing with finances. s53 00:04:47.374 --> 00:04:50.854 You don't want to give your agent sort of unfettered access to your account. s54 00:04:50.854 --> 00:04:53.854 You want the right guardrails, limitations, all of that in place. s55 00:04:53.854 --> 00:05:04.014 So, to to to build this defensive hedge for our company and allow us to survive in the AI era, we are taking this it's sort of an analog to s56 00:05:04.014 --> 00:05:14.614 web shifting to mobile, but now mobile shifting to agents and making everything that was accessible for mobile users inside their their phone back a decade ago when people were saying, "I would never bank on my phone. s57 00:05:14.614 --> 00:05:15.414 That sounds crazy." s58 00:05:15.414 --> 00:05:19.134 Now everyone does it more than they do even on their on their web browser. s59 00:05:19.134 --> 00:05:28.254 Doing that same thing, but now making it available to agents adding in all of the safety nuances that you would need such that today you may say, "Why would I ever give an AI access to my account to manage money?" s60 00:05:28.254 --> 00:05:32.534 And 10 years from now, you won't even be looking at your account at all, just be happening through your through your agent. s61 00:05:32.534 --> 00:05:38.414 I'm curious, is there like specific advantages of crypto being the solution for this? s62 00:05:38.414 --> 00:05:40.094 I think on the payment side, absolutely. s63 00:05:40.094 --> 00:05:49.894 So, a lot of what we've seen with early traction around X402, which is our internet native payment standard that we have now externalized into its own separate foundation. s64 00:05:49.894 --> 00:05:54.534 That's that's co-run and governed by Cloudflare, Stripe, Amex, Mastercard, Visa, and so on. s65 00:05:54.534 --> 00:06:02.574 The the crypto angle, I think is primarily around the ability for digital dollars to be sent uh cheap, fast, permissionlessly anywhere in the world. s66 00:06:02.574 --> 00:06:07.655 So, anyone who's running a business and wants their AI agent to accept a transaction can do so. s67 00:06:07.655 --> 00:06:18.615 And though we've seen this a lot with existing sort of card-based or stripe link style solutions, one of the areas where I think crypto has a particular role to play is around micro transactions s68 00:06:18.615 --> 00:06:30.015 and the ability for an agent to spend 1/1000 of a cent, even 1/1000000 of a cent, to access an API or a service or even a paywalled website very, very seamlessly and and trivially. s69 00:06:30.015 --> 00:06:32.695 And I'm curious, is that future already here? s70 00:06:32.695 --> 00:06:35.975 Like are we already seeing agents making transactions via crypto? s71 00:06:35.975 --> 00:06:37.175 Like s72 00:06:37.175 --> 00:06:37.935 Yeah, absolutely. s73 00:06:37.935 --> 00:06:43.775 We're we're seeing a pretty exponential increase in the amount of transactions that are being made. s74 00:06:43.775 --> 00:06:51.055 In the past year, we've seen around 100 million agentic transactions actually, all happening on chain, all publicly available for anyone to audit. s75 00:06:51.055 --> 00:06:55.375 Uh all of those are are primarily for this use case of of interacting with APIs. s76 00:06:55.375 --> 00:07:05.415 So in this previous version of the world, you would have to go to whatever website you wanted to interact with the service, you'd have to fund that account, you'd have to get an API key, and then hand that to your agent. s77 00:07:05.415 --> 00:07:07.575 Only then you can really start to interact with things. s78 00:07:07.575 --> 00:07:14.615 But now we're seeing a world where if you just give an agent a wallet or some sort of financial account, it can go off and pay in a one-off basis for different APIs. s79 00:07:14.615 --> 00:07:21.015 And that's been a really resonant use case with with this core audience of of early adopters of agentic payments. s80 00:07:21.015 --> 00:07:30.255 So you're talking about like basically people connecting to your wallet via API or like the agent purchasing APIs or s81 00:07:30.255 --> 00:07:31.935 Yeah, it's like the agent purchasing APIs. s82 00:07:31.935 --> 00:07:32.215 So s83 00:07:32.215 --> 00:07:32.695 Oh, okay. s84 00:07:32.695 --> 00:07:45.615 The the analogy I like to use is it'd be like if every the the current way the internet works is every time you uh it'd be like if every time you went to a grocery store, you had to walk in, you had to buy a gift card for that specific grocery store, you had to sign up for s85 00:07:45.615 --> 00:07:48.055 their loyalty account, and only then you can start paying for stuff. s86 00:07:48.055 --> 00:07:54.295 And that's how it feels whenever you go to a website, you have to get API keys, you have to fund that account specifically, and only then your agent can start interacting. s87 00:07:54.295 --> 00:08:02.255 But as we give these agents more financial independence and autonomy, they're able to do things without having to go through this arduous human blocking process. s88 00:08:02.255 --> 00:08:07.375 And in the same way that I can only do so much on the internet without having access to money, agents are very much the same way. s89 00:08:07.375 --> 00:08:17.817 Giving them access to money is how you increase their autonomy and ultimately get to the point where they can go do things if you just tell your cloud agent, I want to go generate an image, it should be able to do that even if it doesn't have a connection to that today. s90 00:08:17.817 --> 00:08:21.137 It should just pay for that service, pay the 25 cents or whatever it might be. s91 00:08:21.137 --> 00:08:27.337 So, Coinbase is like doubling down on APIs in general, would you say, to make it more agent friendly? s92 00:08:27.337 --> 00:08:28.137 Yeah, absolutely. s93 00:08:28.137 --> 00:08:29.377 I think APIs are the name of the game. s94 00:08:29.377 --> 00:08:33.017 You can wrap that in an MCP and that's all fine and dandy if that changes at some point in the future. s95 00:08:33.017 --> 00:08:46.417 We'll see, but uh it's it's really the the the APIs and that underlying uh access to your service in a way that gives makes it so much more accessible to people in like a safe, friendly, intuitive manner. s96 00:08:46.417 --> 00:08:51.497 I was going to ask if you have any takes on like MCP versus CLI versus API. s97 00:08:51.497 --> 00:09:03.457 Yeah, I just uh I think API's always going to be that fundamental layer underneath it all and then the MCP is nice for adding additional context and nuance that's required within like a natural language style setting and and CLI is is broadly s98 00:09:03.457 --> 00:09:12.497 the same with the additional requirement of having like a terminal associated with it, but between all of them, I think it's kind of like a you have to have all of them and it's how easy AI assisted development has gotten. s99 00:09:12.497 --> 00:09:17.337 It kind of feels like you're just fundamentally wrapping them in in whatever way, shape, or form that the agent can can use. s100 00:09:17.337 --> 00:09:24.217 And beyond that, there's, you know, pros and cons to each of them individually, but I think we're we're far from the end game of how these tools evolve and and where they start going. s101 00:09:24.217 --> 00:09:25.977 Yeah, that leads to my next question. s102 00:09:25.977 --> 00:09:29.377 Like, where do you think the world is going to be headed towards? s103 00:09:29.377 --> 00:09:30.017 Mhm. s104 00:09:30.017 --> 00:09:30.511 Mhm. s105 00:09:30.511 --> 00:09:30.617 [clears throat] s106 00:09:30.617 --> 00:09:48.297 I On the agentic payment side particularly, my my sort of core fundamental belief is that granting agents more financial independence by giving them access to money and and authorizing them to spend that is how we create increasing levels of autonomy and long-running agents that just lead ultimately to better outcomes. s107 00:09:48.297 --> 00:10:02.337 If I can get my agent uh the ability to go pay for information on paywalled sites that otherwise wouldn't previously be available, that would allow it to run overnight and do even deeper research settings that I could do if I just gave it access to the public open internet. s108 00:10:02.337 --> 00:10:10.057 Similarly, if I allow my agent to in a in a future version of the world, say I want my agent to go set up a company for me and form an LLC. s109 00:10:10.057 --> 00:10:19.698 Maybe it can't do that entirely on its own, but maybe it can go hire a lawyer off of a you know a Fiverr equivalent or or rent a human or any one of these services and and an accountant to handle this work. s110 00:10:19.698 --> 00:10:21.938 It there's a really interesting concept from the crypto space. s111 00:10:21.938 --> 00:10:23.498 It's called a DAO like a DAO. s112 00:10:23.498 --> 00:10:26.498 It's a decentralized autonomous organization. s113 00:10:26.498 --> 00:10:37.498 And this has been around for for several years now, but it's really manifested itself as basically just another form of bureaucracy where there's a handful of people trying to make decisions and it just it just always kind of crumbled. s114 00:10:37.498 --> 00:10:39.298 It never really achieved that whole vision. s115 00:10:39.298 --> 00:10:44.538 And the original vision was automation at the core and humans at the edges and you run an organization that way. s116 00:10:44.538 --> 00:10:49.818 And I think agents with access to money are a very clear example of how we're going to see that vision finally come to life. s117 00:10:49.818 --> 00:11:02.338 I genuinely ask these questions with curiosity cuz I personally do not know crypto very well and it's very interesting to see how like I guess like a lot of these theses that were like kind of built previously s118 00:11:02.338 --> 00:11:05.978 are kind of coming into fruition with AI in play. s119 00:11:05.978 --> 00:11:07.378 Yeah, it's been really fun to see. s120 00:11:07.378 --> 00:11:12.218 It's very validated in a lot of senses where it's like you simply can't just give an AI access to a bank account. s121 00:11:12.218 --> 00:11:22.138 A crypto wallet is a nice way to provably give it access and and ownership over over money, but I would love to hear your your perspective and vision on how the world evolves as well as as agents becoming the primary s122 00:11:22.138 --> 00:11:27.298 adopters and ingesters of of documentation and how that changes your strategy at Menthafy. s123 00:11:27.298 --> 00:11:32.178 Yeah, I love how much of an emphasis you had on APIs cuz that's also my take. s124 00:11:32.178 --> 00:11:37.058 Like it's it feels like a lot of software companies are kind of becoming more developer-centric. s125 00:11:37.058 --> 00:11:46.738 And you know, we do envision a world where everybody is using like this technology, but right now like the earliest adopters are developers and also the agents actually speak s126 00:11:46.738 --> 00:11:51.538 like the language of developers because like it's all in code, right? s127 00:11:51.538 --> 00:11:53.778 And like they they're really good at bash. s128 00:11:53.778 --> 00:11:55.618 They're really good at CLI commands. s129 00:11:55.618 --> 00:12:09.258 And so definitely think at least like for now like doing that and all like software companies should be really investing in APIs and uh these things that like seem a little bit traditional honestly. s130 00:12:09.258 --> 00:12:16.379 Um and also I I think like what you said also reinforces the fact that the like front end is not mattering as much either. s131 00:12:16.379 --> 00:12:24.659 Like make make everything avail- accessible to agents by like by creating APIs essentially. s132 00:12:24.659 --> 00:12:34.259 Um one interesting statistic that I want to share is that at the beginning of the year across all Netlify sites, we had around like 10% of like the viewership s133 00:12:34.259 --> 00:12:38.739 was agents and now uh we're closer to like 80%. s134 00:12:38.739 --> 00:12:53.379 Um and it's kind of funny we have like this internal tracker at our company where we uh we just track like how what what the percentage is and we're like we internally like take bets on like where we think it's going to go and it's been growing faster than we even think. s135 00:12:53.379 --> 00:13:00.059 And it's not like human viewership is going down, but I think that like the agent viewership is just going so much higher. s136 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:16.899 Um I always like to like it's it's weird because like agents act kind of similarly to humans and uh and different in in many different ways, but like I like kind of using like the agent terms on humans in the sense that like we as humans have very small context windows s137 00:13:16.899 --> 00:13:33.939 in comparison to the agents like and they have much more like you know, time to just like like ingest so much more content and be able to grok that well and I think that's like really the the crux of like the big surge that we're all just like seeing right now with like how agents are impacting businesses s138 00:13:33.939 --> 00:13:35.459 and like how we work. s139 00:13:35.459 --> 00:13:41.059 Um it's it's it's insane like the like the the growth like over the past years is insane. s140 00:13:41.059 --> 00:13:47.619 Uh like uh open claw like was literally like this year and that's that also kind of feels like forever ago. s141 00:13:47.619 --> 00:13:48.499 That that's fascinating. s142 00:13:48.499 --> 00:13:57.219 I want to drill in on something you said about uh companies investing in like the traditional things and also what you made previously around humans writing documentation as opposed to AI. s143 00:13:57.219 --> 00:14:08.419 I'm really curious to learn a little bit more about your perspective on that and if we'll always sort of need this human touch to to write documentation or or or provide a nuance that then an agent can go ingest s144 00:14:08.419 --> 00:14:14.899 or if there's a world where this starts to become a a more automated process for teams and how teams are interacting with this uh this uh pattern today. s145 00:14:14.899 --> 00:14:23.381 Yeah, I spend a lot of time thinking about like human writing versus like AI-generated writing and where my takes fall in that. s146 00:14:23.381 --> 00:14:30.141 And I do think that for creative prose or narrative writing, uh it's very important to have that human touch. s147 00:14:30.141 --> 00:14:35.101 And I don't know how terminally online this room is, but I am quite terminally online. s148 00:14:35.101 --> 00:14:49.261 And there is so much conversation about uh you know, like uh software engineers like using uh coding for writing all their code, but then religiously like writing like uh prose by hand. s149 00:14:49.261 --> 00:14:57.781 Like, you know, when you're like giving a document to somebody else within the team, like do you decide to AI-generate it or do you decide to write it yourself? s150 00:14:57.781 --> 00:15:02.381 There's starting to become like a class of documents and like division happening now. s151 00:15:02.381 --> 00:15:16.741 And so, I definitely think like um it's I like I always kind of like uh teeter around like, you know, going towards tradition versus like going towards like a new paradigm of like everything is changing and we need to change the way that we think. s152 00:15:16.741 --> 00:15:20.461 And I think that it's we're all figuring it out as we go. s153 00:15:20.461 --> 00:15:28.741 I I I'm not going to lie, I do think I had a point in time where I was like feeling a little AI psychosis, where I'm like, oh, like, I don't need to talk to anyone. s154 00:15:28.741 --> 00:15:32.781 Like, I'll just talk to my MCPs and I'll be able to get all the insights and everything. s155 00:15:32.781 --> 00:15:36.941 I definitely think, especially as a product person, I'm also curious to hear your thoughts on that. s156 00:15:36.941 --> 00:15:44.901 Like, it's still important to talk to people and figure out like what what what the real pain points and use cases are today uh in spite of all the innovations s157 00:15:44.901 --> 00:15:46.301 that are changing. s158 00:15:46.301 --> 00:15:58.821 Um but uh yeah, to to kind of go back to your question, um like I think for technical writing particularly, like there is like a process of gathering the insights s159 00:15:58.821 --> 00:16:06.661 and then like putting it in, in which I do think like the technical writing like portion of it can be automated. s160 00:16:06.661 --> 00:16:20.181 Like, I think it's very tedious to find all the related PRs, find all the related context, all everything that's happening within Slack, all the decisions being made, and then like put that into something succinct, and then figure out like where s161 00:16:20.181 --> 00:16:25.502 uh and like amidst your corpus of like content like you need to like inject it in. s162 00:16:25.502 --> 00:16:27.742 I think like all of that can be automated. s163 00:16:27.742 --> 00:16:28.382 Interesting. s164 00:16:28.382 --> 00:16:35.182 Yeah, I I I've noticed from the product perspective to your point that it's it's very difficult to find any sort of insights or takeaways from just interacting with an agent. s165 00:16:35.182 --> 00:16:38.942 And if anything it just hallucinates and make you prioritize the wrong wrong things. s166 00:16:38.942 --> 00:16:42.382 Um if my reckoning of time is right we probably have time for one more question. s167 00:16:42.382 --> 00:16:50.222 So I'd be I'd be very curious to hear from you what is the most common fit fitfall you see teams who are building for AI and building documentation for AI s168 00:16:50.222 --> 00:16:59.902 uh fall into and and and how that sort of impacts what they're attempting to drive the AI to do and what you would recommend to to make this whole process much more seamless. s169 00:16:59.902 --> 00:17:01.542 Mm yeah. s170 00:17:01.542 --> 00:17:10.222 Okay, this is going to sound like a a my own plug, but I do think that uh like it's the whole like build versus buy. s171 00:17:10.222 --> 00:17:15.022 I think is like the question that everyone is constantly asking for software products. s172 00:17:15.022 --> 00:17:24.262 And I do think that you know, when you're deciding what to do whether it's documentation or any other SAS that you have within your company to like improve your productivity s173 00:17:24.262 --> 00:17:38.622 or like not your main thing, I do think that there is like it's you're either deciding to maintain something yourself or uh like offload that to another team that's literally spending like every waking hour thinking about it. s174 00:17:38.622 --> 00:17:51.222 Um and so I do think like things are getting more competitive with AI, things are moving faster with AI and I think like every company should be focused on whatever their number one value proposition is and it's so easy to kind of forget s175 00:17:51.222 --> 00:17:54.302 about uh the maintenance costs of things, you know? s176 00:17:54.302 --> 00:18:02.422 I think that's like what we're kind of seeing a lot in enterprise sales as well where it's like "Hey guys, we built this during a hackathon and nobody wants to maintain it." s177 00:18:02.422 --> 00:18:08.982 Like what like like if we were in the business of doing what you guys are doing, we would be building your business, you know? s178 00:18:08.982 --> 00:18:13.822 Um and so I think that like uh really remembering and I think this has always been the case. s179 00:18:13.822 --> 00:18:16.502 I think just AI like accentuates this a lot more. s180 00:18:16.502 --> 00:18:20.502 It's like "Hey, we could build it, but like do we want to maintain it?" s181 00:18:20.502 --> 00:18:25.023 Um and I think that uh this is a question that we also ask ourselves when building products. s182 00:18:25.023 --> 00:18:26.423 Cuz we could be building everything. s183 00:18:26.423 --> 00:18:27.663 Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense. s184 00:18:27.663 --> 00:18:32.303 And especially with how fast-moving the agent space is and and and the way and manner in which they crawl sites and whatnot. s185 00:18:32.303 --> 00:18:33.903 It feels like there's a million different standards and whatnot. s186 00:18:33.903 --> 00:18:39.623 So, having just like a constant view on what the state of the art is and having that handled without having to do the maintenance. s187 00:18:39.623 --> 00:18:41.743 I've seen that firsthand with hackathon projects and whatnot. s188 00:18:41.743 --> 00:18:43.223 So, yeah, couldn't agree more. s189 00:18:43.223 --> 00:18:43.863 Awesome. s190 00:18:43.863 --> 00:18:45.023 Thanks so much for your time, Lincoln. s191 00:18:45.023 --> 00:18:45.543 Yeah, absolutely. s192 00:18:45.543 --> 00:18:46.983 Appreciate everyone uh sitting through this. s193 00:18:46.983 --> 00:18:49.223 Thank you.