WEBVTT NOTE Sentence-level transcript of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW-jwOVr32w NOTE One cue per sentence. Cue ids are the line anchors on /transcripts/NW-jwOVr32w.html. A cue ends where the next begins, or 2 s after its last word. s1 00:00:01.309 --> 00:00:03.309 [music] s2 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:14.559 Hello everyone. s3 00:00:14.559 --> 00:00:15.759 I'm Jonathan Gordon. s4 00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:20.640 I'm a founder of Reweaver AAI, a new company, you know, on the scene, let's say. s5 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:23.199 I want to share one thing with all of you that was really fascinating. s6 00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:28.240 So, I I plugged in my laptop and I realized I had to mirror. s7 00:00:28.240 --> 00:00:30.320 So, I no longer have my speaker notes. s8 00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:35.280 So, I went into Claude and I said, "Can you extract my speaker notes from my slide deck, please?" s9 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:38.079 And I had my speaker notes now. s10 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:40.640 I love AI. s11 00:00:41.440 --> 00:00:42.800 The suspense was killing me. s12 00:00:42.800 --> 00:00:45.280 I was talking to Claude now. s13 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:46.480 Who knows if it got it right. s14 00:00:46.480 --> 00:00:46.879 I don't know. s15 00:00:46.879 --> 00:00:47.760 Whatever. s16 00:00:47.760 --> 00:00:51.280 Um, so I also realized that my title slide buried the lead. s17 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:53.280 I shouldn't have put it up. s18 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:56.800 Um, but nonetheless, let's play with this. s19 00:00:56.800 --> 00:00:58.879 So, uh, yeah, my name is Jonathan. s20 00:00:58.879 --> 00:01:04.159 Um, I'm here to talk to you about the design code roundtrip that isn't. s21 00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:12.479 And I guess probably the best thing to do first is to explain what I think a design code roundtrip should be. s22 00:01:12.479 --> 00:01:28.240 Um the design code roundtrip is a full loop between design and engineering in both directions without any loss of fidelity and with a persistent provenence. s23 00:01:28.240 --> 00:01:30.400 So it knows exactly where everything came from. s24 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:42.159 You know that perfect dream world that we live in where there is no drift in between the gaps of design and code. s25 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:45.520 Um, today's tools, design is amazing. s26 00:01:45.520 --> 00:01:46.159 It's incredible. s27 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:46.799 It's magic. s28 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:48.720 It's I ask for something, I get it. s29 00:01:48.720 --> 00:01:49.439 It's clickable. s30 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:50.560 It's interactive. s31 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:52.720 It's amazing to me. s32 00:01:52.720 --> 00:01:56.079 But nobody really looks at the code anymore, it seems. s33 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:57.680 And so, I kind of want to go there. s34 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:00.320 I want to go into that space. s35 00:02:00.320 --> 00:02:01.119 Whoops. s36 00:02:01.119 --> 00:02:04.240 Of course, I have to get my mouse to the right location. s37 00:02:04.240 --> 00:02:05.119 There we go. s38 00:02:05.119 --> 00:02:07.680 Um, a little bit about me. s39 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:24.400 past 30 plus years um I've been building and designing coding tools developer tools idees at these companies um so I've spent a lot of time with as a designer I've spent a lot of time with design and engineering teams s40 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:35.120 trying to understand how do we do that handoff well how do we hand off from design to code how do we get what we wanted to be delivered to the customer s41 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:38.560 um it was never a perfect science We never got it. s42 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:47.920 We never found that magic sauce that just made everything come together where intent matched the outcome. s43 00:02:47.920 --> 00:02:50.000 Um, but I developed techniques. s44 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:52.000 I negotiated with engineers. s45 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:53.120 I brought them out for drinks. s46 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:54.959 I made them my friends. s47 00:02:54.959 --> 00:02:58.959 Um, I got things delivered to customers. s48 00:02:58.959 --> 00:03:01.519 But the the loop was never closed. s49 00:03:01.519 --> 00:03:04.480 Um, and it's because our outcomes diverged. s50 00:03:04.480 --> 00:03:11.840 engineering had one set of requirements, technical constraints, design had a vision for the future, a new rebranding, whatever. s51 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:16.879 So, this has existed, you know, dare I say, for decades. s52 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:26.879 Um, then along comes AI and LLM and prompting ourself into a fully running application. s53 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:37.200 In a sense, now we have one intelligence that understands design intent and the same intel in intelligence can write code. s54 00:03:37.200 --> 00:03:41.920 So I thought to myself, oh my god, I think we might be able to close this loop. s55 00:03:41.920 --> 00:03:45.040 At the speed of inference, we could close this loop. s56 00:03:45.040 --> 00:03:47.440 And so I was curious. s57 00:03:47.440 --> 00:03:50.400 Um, I'm curious by nature. s58 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:52.319 So I went all in. s59 00:03:52.319 --> 00:04:00.080 That's my GitHub before vibe coding happened on the left on on my left on your whatever. s60 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:08.000 Um then after so I think everybody probably gets a sense of what my life was like from April 2025. s61 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:12.080 And if you want to scroll till today it's it's even more so. s62 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:26.240 Um, I got this email from cursor one day that said I was in the top 0.1% of usage of cursor and I thought to myself, I need to spend more time outside. s63 00:04:28.320 --> 00:04:29.600 Then there was a bill. s64 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:39.520 Um, but at the time it was the $20 deal and I kind of, you know, monitored, but every now and again I'd pay for a little bit more, get another hit. s65 00:04:39.520 --> 00:04:48.320 Um, and this was my life vibe coding from that point in April until today. s66 00:04:48.320 --> 00:04:52.160 Um, I'm trying to figure out can I go from design to code? s67 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:53.600 Can I go from code to design? s68 00:04:53.600 --> 00:05:01.680 Can I build a tool to go from design to code and code to design a full round trip without any loss of fidelity? s69 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:04.400 That pixel perfect dream that we have. s70 00:05:04.400 --> 00:05:13.280 Um, I remember vividly uh one day I was, you know, just hammering away at the keyboard, just vibing my way. s71 00:05:13.280 --> 00:05:15.520 I was really feeling the vibe. s72 00:05:15.520 --> 00:05:24.320 And, uh, this wall of text was coming by and I was completely ignoring it and code was being written, just watching that come by. s73 00:05:24.320 --> 00:05:29.840 And I remember seeing a statement that was an inner HTML statement. s74 00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:39.759 And I remember from way back when that inter HTML was a security vulnerability that people can actually inject into in HTML and I stopped it. s75 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:41.039 I said, "Wait a minute, wait a minute." s76 00:05:41.039 --> 00:05:45.039 to my LM, "Wait a minute, what did you just do?" s77 00:05:45.039 --> 00:05:47.600 And it explained to me what it did and it was very proud of itself. s78 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:49.840 And and I said, "Revert that. s79 00:05:49.840 --> 00:05:50.639 Do this instead." s80 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:51.680 Blah blah. s81 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:55.600 And I got into this mode of like, "Oh, maybe I need to steer this thing a little bit better. s82 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:57.360 Maybe I can't just go blindly in. s83 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:00.000 Maybe I need to look at the code now. s84 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.639 And I've looked at a lot of code in my life. s85 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:06.880 So I went ahead and went in and looked at the code and I Whoops. s86 00:06:06.880 --> 00:06:07.199 I'm sorry. s87 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:11.520 I clicked too ahead and I found I found issues. s88 00:06:11.520 --> 00:06:23.680 And so I went a little bit deeper when the industry started to tell me that they had solved the round trip that you could go a true roundtrip workflow. s89 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.080 You could roundtrip between code and canvas. s90 00:06:26.080 --> 00:06:37.919 I think folks in the room might remember back in February, no slam on anthropic or Figma, there was this demo that showed going from cloud code into Figma. s91 00:06:37.919 --> 00:06:38.880 And it was magic. s92 00:06:38.880 --> 00:06:39.600 It was incredible. s93 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:45.360 I couldn't believe you could build a Figma artboard from a prompt in Cloud Code. s94 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:49.440 And then I had to go deeper and I had to look deeper in the same way that I looked at vibe coding. s95 00:06:49.440 --> 00:06:50.319 Like, is this real? s96 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:51.919 Is the hype real? s97 00:06:51.919 --> 00:07:00.720 So I went deeper and then more announcements were made all the way up until last week when Figma config announced that code is now material. s98 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:05.440 Does that mean there is no even handoff that exists anymore? s99 00:07:05.440 --> 00:07:08.319 Um so I'm monitoring trying to keep up. s100 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:11.680 Things are happening at warp speed. s101 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:17.680 But they said the roundtrip was solved and I started messing around and realized it wasn't. s102 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:23.039 And so I want to share with all of you a harness that I built. s103 00:07:23.039 --> 00:07:24.080 Whoops. s104 00:07:24.080 --> 00:07:25.440 Oh, wait a minute. s105 00:07:25.440 --> 00:07:27.440 Local host, where are you? s106 00:07:27.440 --> 00:07:31.440 Local host, come back to me, local host. s107 00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:33.199 Okay. s108 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:34.880 I don't know what I don't know what just happened there. s109 00:07:34.880 --> 00:07:36.880 And now I'm afraid to restart this. s110 00:07:36.880 --> 00:07:37.919 Um, okay. s111 00:07:37.919 --> 00:07:39.840 I think we're I think we're okay. s112 00:07:39.840 --> 00:07:41.360 Um, I created this harness. s113 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.800 And what this harness is is on. s114 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:45.599 I'm going to say left. s115 00:07:45.599 --> 00:07:47.759 I hope everybody is that your left. s116 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:48.400 It is your left. s117 00:07:48.400 --> 00:07:48.985 Okay, good. s118 00:07:48.985 --> 00:07:50.080 [laughter] s119 00:07:50.080 --> 00:07:52.880 On your left is code that was generated by AI. s120 00:07:52.880 --> 00:07:55.840 This is this is all real what you're seeing here. s121 00:07:55.840 --> 00:08:01.120 Generated by AI and on your right is a design. s122 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:06.240 Be it a canvas that that I created in Figma, be it something I created in Sketch. s123 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:13.199 It's not really relevant what the sources are here, but the reality is I'm trying to illustrate a round trip. s124 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:19.759 And so a round trip you know starts with code or starts with design and it has a prompt associated with it. s125 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:27.360 So some some LLM I call off and I say in this instance I want to take this form and I want to build a design system from it. s126 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:33.919 So there there are tools that do this that can extract code and build design systems from graphical canvases. s127 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:36.320 And so I can do that. s128 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.760 And it updated the code and created some styles. s129 00:08:39.760 --> 00:08:44.959 And it also actually created um a design system that works in runtime here. s130 00:08:44.959 --> 00:08:49.920 So this is like a a real app that got built that is also living in Figma. s131 00:08:49.920 --> 00:08:51.120 So there's a link up here. s132 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:54.720 I won't go there, but trust me, so we can say stable. s133 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:58.880 If I click that link, it would go to Figma and show me the full-blown design system that was built. s134 00:08:58.880 --> 00:09:10.160 And a design system for those that don't know is composed of components and tokens and variables and styles that all are used as a basis for building software from. s135 00:09:10.160 --> 00:09:17.279 So code and design together, you know, really work well when there's a design system and there's a code base that understands it. s136 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:19.440 Now move back and forth. s137 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:23.440 You throw something over here and you say, "Okay, I want to build an orange button." s138 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:26.160 And I've added a company field and an orange button. s139 00:09:26.160 --> 00:09:27.120 The code is updated. s140 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:28.640 The design is updated. s141 00:09:28.640 --> 00:09:29.519 This is awesome. s142 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:30.720 Could I go back? s143 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:31.920 Maybe. s144 00:09:31.920 --> 00:09:35.920 Um, but I have a button up here called show drift. s145 00:09:35.920 --> 00:09:40.560 So, show drift is rewaver AI working right now. s146 00:09:40.560 --> 00:09:45.839 And this is real rewaver code for the first time introduced to the public ever. s147 00:09:45.839 --> 00:09:55.040 And if I click show drift, I'll see a list of issues that got generated from both the code and the design at the same time. s148 00:09:55.040 --> 00:09:58.640 There are across several different dimensions that you can see here. s149 00:09:58.640 --> 00:10:15.519 Design quality, code quality, performance, design tokens, etc. One of the ones of note that I find really important from my perspective is at Microsoft I worked on accessibility and I learned a lot about what it means to build an accessible software system. s150 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:17.279 And I I want to be honest with all of you. s151 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:23.120 I was very frustrated when I first saw LMS come out and they generated code that was inaccessible period out of the box. s152 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:27.519 I thought what models weren't trained on accessibility. s153 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:33.680 Um, and I was reminded 20 years ago when you know engineers needed to be trained on accessibility. s154 00:10:33.680 --> 00:10:39.360 So here we are again now training LLMs instead of engineers on accessibility. s155 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:40.880 So found issues. s156 00:10:40.880 --> 00:10:46.640 Um, here's an issue where has no Arya live region. s157 00:10:46.640 --> 00:10:48.399 So it won't be announced by screen reader. s158 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:52.079 A blind user using this won't get an announcement about this element. s159 00:10:52.079 --> 00:10:58.079 So Rewaver found that and Rewaver says it can fix it and Rewaver fixed it. s160 00:10:58.079 --> 00:11:01.680 Now the red went away, but there's also a blue issue here as well. s161 00:11:01.680 --> 00:11:15.920 Um so Rewaver stacks up issues and you know basically scans scans the code and scans the design and produces u guard rails to a sense but also a way to fix the code and make it better. s162 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:28.640 So I did that across multiple dimensions um you know with the intention of seeing if anybody had solved the drown the the roundtrip problem and it didn't go well. s163 00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:31.040 Uh I never got really the full round trip. s164 00:11:31.040 --> 00:11:44.640 So I really tried hopefully this slide tells you I tried five different tool setups trying to do code design code roundtrip both directions birectional lots of lossy issues uh s165 00:11:44.640 --> 00:11:57.600 you know bindings were lost um design change survived but code didn't I'm not going to say we're not going to get there um but even if we do get there and we're able to do this s166 00:11:57.600 --> 00:12:02.720 I wonder if we'll get fully there And maybe we need tools like Reweaver. s167 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:10.560 I shouldn't say maybe, we do need tools like Reweaver to help us understand the drift. s168 00:12:10.560 --> 00:12:14.720 So that whole experience for me really highlighted something from my past. s169 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:24.639 Um I had I had built a lot of software development tools, designed and built software development tools and developer tools in their nature are deterministic. s170 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:31.279 You write code, you compile it, you get an SA a it it'll every time you run that code, you'll get the same result. s171 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:38.720 When you put AI in the middle of that or in the front of that or the end of that, you're not going to necessarily get the same outcomes. s172 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:43.920 Now, there are tools that will help you understand, rewaver being one of them, that there's a mismatch. s173 00:12:43.920 --> 00:12:47.600 There's drift there and we need to be aware of drift. s174 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:50.000 Drift lurks in the dark. s175 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:51.120 You need to look at the code. s176 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:52.000 You need to find the drift. s177 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.000 You need to fix the drift. s178 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:57.760 And you do that with deterministic guardrails around the AI. s179 00:12:57.760 --> 00:13:00.000 The AI is still there. s180 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:06.320 So I ran another experiment, 12 iterations on a codebase with complex enough UI to it. s181 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:10.480 And I did one where it was just pure AIE, just LLM all the way. s182 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:11.760 And it degraded a little. s183 00:13:11.760 --> 00:13:20.959 It degraded a little bit, but it started at 30% quality, 30% fidelity, 30%, you know, true pixel perfection. s184 00:13:20.959 --> 00:13:27.360 And then I put it on top of deterministic guardrails where we found the issues, we fixed the issues. s185 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:34.160 You can't get to a hundred because that 10% is human judgment, human decision-making. s186 00:13:34.160 --> 00:13:38.639 So the human is still there in this equation. s187 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:42.639 Um, so what is it today? s188 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:45.680 Uh, today I I would call it we're locked into AI. s189 00:13:45.680 --> 00:13:46.320 And that's okay. s190 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:47.279 We'll go there. s191 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:48.800 We'll embrace that. s192 00:13:48.800 --> 00:13:50.959 But we're locked into AI for design to code. s193 00:13:50.959 --> 00:13:59.199 We're locked into AI for code to design, looping, chat bots, what we call span the chain workflows where you jumping across tools. s194 00:13:59.199 --> 00:14:02.000 And there's always token costs to be aware of, of course. s195 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:06.480 So in this world, the agents are in control and the humans in the loop. s196 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:08.560 I'd like to propose something else. s197 00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:11.920 Before I do, there are three blind spots we need to be aware of. s198 00:14:11.920 --> 00:14:13.360 One is the model itself. s199 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:14.639 It's going to you can ask it questions. s200 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:17.920 It'll give you answers, but it's nondeterministic. s201 00:14:17.920 --> 00:14:19.680 It's probabilistic. s202 00:14:19.680 --> 00:14:22.000 There will be drift in the moment when you're writing code. s203 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:36.399 Drift will surface, but drift over time is the pain that you'll be experiencing for the next six months because drift over time is the new tech debt and it's going to pile itself s204 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.040 gloriously over your codebase. s205 00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:42.560 Um, we want to do something about it. s206 00:14:42.560 --> 00:15:00.160 So here's where we think it isn't meaning what it could be what it should be fully birectional edit both ways lossless all surfaces preserved so if you go from code to design and design to code nothing's breaking weirdly for you s207 00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:13.839 provenence is carried where did this start from what line of code wrote this button I see this button in Figma I want to change it I need to change that code or Somebody needs to change that code. s208 00:15:13.839 --> 00:15:16.160 We have to control the drift. s209 00:15:16.160 --> 00:15:19.120 It's deterministic reconciliation at its core. s210 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:28.720 So with deterministic guardrails, and I'm happy to talk after if folks are interested in what I mean by that, accept or refuse. s211 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:32.240 So if they know there's a fix, they will fix it. s212 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:38.959 If they don't know there's a fix, they will tell you there's an issue, but you need to fix it. s213 00:15:38.959 --> 00:15:41.760 And with Ruby Weaver, there's zero extra token costs. s214 00:15:41.760 --> 00:15:48.560 So, we're fully local LLM, but if you want to open up Claude or whatever and connect to us, you can. s215 00:15:48.560 --> 00:15:53.920 But at its core, and our core principle is the human is in control always. s216 00:15:53.920 --> 00:16:01.040 In control of cost, in control of code, in control of design, because that's what we've been doing for decades. s217 00:16:01.040 --> 00:16:02.800 We've been in control. s218 00:16:02.800 --> 00:16:04.480 We don't need to lose control. s219 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:15.600 And I'm not saying loop isn't good, but human in control is I think a little more aspirational because at the end of the day, what you need is actually what you get. s220 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:17.120 I call it winnywig. s221 00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:20.480 Can I use that winny wig? s222 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:22.639 So what are we building at its core? s223 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:28.560 What we're building are nine dimensions of deterministic guardrails. s224 00:16:28.560 --> 00:16:37.279 Inside of this is a lot of stuff, but these are our top level um software quality, software production readiness dimensions. s225 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:38.959 Design consistency being core. s226 00:16:38.959 --> 00:16:44.720 Of course, when you have a design system and the code isn't consistent with it and vice versa, we need to fix that. s227 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:50.560 So, there's a lot of design consistency um work that's going into the the foundation. s228 00:16:50.560 --> 00:16:53.199 Accessibility is its own dimension. s229 00:16:53.199 --> 00:17:07.839 um maybe selfish of me but I think it's core uh AI code generation too or AI code sorry governance AI code generation governance is another really critical piece because the code is just flying through the system s230 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:19.679 and we need to govern that code now we're not going to change the code rewaver actually doesn't write code you write code reweaver will do what you want it to do so if you say apply the fix s231 00:17:19.679 --> 00:17:24.400 it'll write the code for you can see the code being written You can say never mind undo. s232 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:26.319 You can ignore it. s233 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.960 So at the end of the day, catch what drifts in a closed loop before anything merges. s234 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.039 That's the goal. s235 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:35.360 You can try it out with your own code today. s236 00:17:35.360 --> 00:17:47.280 Right now, you can go to reweaver AIPplayground and we built kind of a similar harness to what I built there where you can put your AI generated code on the left on the left. s237 00:17:47.280 --> 00:17:50.400 You can scan it and get your results for that code. s238 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.679 There's also a fun little challenge on that page. s239 00:17:53.679 --> 00:18:06.880 If you can get AI to generate code that gives you a score lower than30 PDR, which is production drift ratio, will get you a frontline seat on the beta, s240 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:09.840 but you'll also get yourself showcased at the bottom on the crawl. s241 00:18:09.840 --> 00:18:11.360 So, give it a shot. s242 00:18:11.360 --> 00:18:12.480 Take a look. s243 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.520 Um, meanwhile, I'm looking for people to join our beta. s244 00:18:15.520 --> 00:18:20.320 We're going to basically blast out mid July hopefully. s245 00:18:20.320 --> 00:18:27.039 Um so would love for you to join if you're interested um to make the product better to sanity check us. s246 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:34.640 Um basically that's it and you can also reach me online or outside happy to talk more. s247 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:36.799 Thank you.